Sergeant Major Denver Dill is a member of the West Point Band and an instructor of American Politics at the United States Military Academy, West Point, New York. Has the. Salute were means of communication. A little ancient cadet history for anyone interested. I can't speak for the Air Force, but the Navy certainly does. Oops! My friend confirmed that Navy Aviation Cadets rated salutes by enlisted personnel, at least they did at that time. Production NCO(i overseen what the shift leaders do as far as getting production done (preparing the sustenance for the Airmens consumptioon in accordsnce with AF Standards i showed him the Regs and the Cook production logs the leaders (shiftleader, 1st Cook, Baker Supervisor, bskers) follow at various levels of preparinv the Sustenance.. Subscribe to our email newsletter to receive exclusive news, updates, and concert schedules for the band. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. In my case I was lucky and had a CO who was ROTC cadre and knew what to do with me. I mean, that certainly seemed to be the case at Airborne School back in the day. You'll be hearing from us soon! Word of advice, if you want to write an op-Ed then you should submit it for publication. Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. Providing innovative solutions and discoveries through international collaborations with leading academic departments, research centers, and industry. In reserve and guard units, SMP cadets do hold assigned positions, but have no position in the chain of command. You earn everything in the Army. Interestingly, one weekend I had a pass and visited a college friend at a nearby naval base where he was undergoing Navy Aviation Cadet training. Read the regs CAREFULLY people, when you want to use them to make a point. As others have commented, folks should remember that those Cadets that you give a hard time to will in a short time become those officers that are in charge of writing your NCOERs never mind the fact that they also will be your leaders when deployed in a combat zone ( I served in the 1st Cav Div during Desert Shield and Storm), in other words garbage in equals garbage out. -If you are a Soldier and you are still carrying around the trash attitude of the "good ole' days", it is most likely time for you to go. Podcast They are legally considered E-5 equivalent, and aren't Branch qualified. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. USAG Yuma Proving Grounds, n Principal Engineer Colorado That sounds like a fun and challenging job. Define "Duty", you know as opposed to "Education/Training". Two of many subjects I taught E-6 and E-7 were Military Customs and Courtesy, and Uniform. After graduating from high school, they both felt called to enlist, and became clerks. Greetings from West Point and welcome to the Commandant's Corner. This would be wiser than placing a WP Year 1 cadet in charge of it. Almost, like her husband, an officer and a lady. Without these people, "How do you become "ELite"! The cadet would still have to be "Regularly Assigned". So when would a cadet actually be in charge? We want to mold a new Officer to become a great leader we can always remember but there's a limit to what we're willing to do. Per the order, they are not entitled to a salute. I agree totally with enlisted not saluting a cadet. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. When contracted you take the officer version of the oath as well. What is the TO&E and where is the cadet slotted? It's hilarious when reality trumps the entitlement issues of a newly hatched fetus. Somewhat surprised by this, and thinking back to my own experiences in CTLT, I asked why he felt that way. Sergeant Major Schlegel began his enlisted career in August of 2005. CSM Craven has a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Colorado Technical University and a Master of Science in Management from Excelsior College. If you think a fellow West Point graduate is a great leader, see how she/he behaves after having a soldier vaporized by an RPG in front of him. Cream only. We need not be concerned about the proviso of either 2-15 or 2-16 as each applies to a Soldier under certain sanctions of discipline. Let me explain: Its summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means Cadet Troop Leader Training or CTLT. When you focus on things that scare you to death, always remember that those are your fears and we're not concerned with achieving the next rank or a nice review. Hooah!!! Tell the NCO's that you don't want to seem like a dick that you're being so picky on things, you're just building trust so later you know who's good to go and what each of our strengths are and that goes for the young LT as well (that's called humility and the men will understand because it's fair). I bet they could not even remember my name. Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". 319th Civil Engineering Squadron. Yet, still burdened with the unsocial characteristic of the enlisted class. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. Scott welcomes story ideas and feedback on his articles, and can be reached at, ts summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means . We always give you a chance before we let you sink your career all on your own. *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. Incorrect. So as indicated by mil/regs a 17 year old snot nosed cadet is indeed an enlisted social/moral/intellectual/ and just plain all around great american hero. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I had occasion to check. He also volunteers with local community organizations such as Higher Ground Men's Group, Men of St. Joseph, and the Most Holy Trinity Catholic Choir. Always seek the minority view of any situation or story! Medical students do not do anything on their own authority, and it would be illegal as they are unlicensed. In July 2001, after graduation from high school, Perez entered the United States Military Academy at West Point. indicating superior social status. I really liked the story and learned something as well having been a former SMP Cadet before I commissioned. Cadets were sons of the upper class and were, due to social norms, afforded gentlemans status. So there is definitely some need to define regularly assigned. No Salute should be required or rendered. He earned his Bachelor of Music in trumpet performance and music education from Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York. GO ARMY! Both preflight and flight school were run under the traditional cadet model of upperclass and lowerclass where upperclassmen were responsible for much of the military training and discipline of the lowerclassmen. Every single SNCO I've come in contact with in ROTC has developed me as an Officer. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. She created a public event called "Play Day," which received press from Time Out New York, Gothamist, and various other New York City media outlets. We get people whose ideals are from left field and seem to think the Army is their play ground. Enough of my rant! You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. From the senior officer perspective we were largely ignored. Master Sergeant Brandie Lane of Columbia, South Carolina, joined the West Point Band in October of 2010. the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps She has always been passionate about how music and design can bring people together. As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. Fort Sill Oklahoma United States Army NCO Academy Challenge Coin . Or a sergeant major for that matter. Prior to joining the West Point Band, Staff Sergeant Rivers interned at Billboard Magazine and Knopf Publishing. Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan (Ministry of Defense Advisor), n Engineering Director Kabul, Afghanistan America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Col. Anthony "Tony" J. Bianchi Colonel Anthony J. Bianchi is from Tampa, Florida and was commissioned in the Field. It was never the SNCOs, it was always a SSG, SGT, or junior enlisted Soldier disrespecting these cadets (myself included). I'm not a regular progression cadet so this is a better look at the situation. Officers and NCO's must realize alike that, they way you treat your future Officers (NCO's case) and the way you treat your subordinates (Officers case) will dictate how the military can and will be run in the future. Practice ought to comport with policy. I wondered how he, as a senior NCO in a highly specialized unit, felt about having cadets around. As far as I know there are no CTLT positions in combat zones. I agree with you Sir. NCOs are the backbone of the Army and run the Army day to day (as opposed to commanding it). We are officers in training and when we get a chanve at a leadership role with the guidance of the NCOs it will ensure our success as officers. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. She earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts in graphic design from the School of Visual Arts in New York City. I was at Camp Buckner in 1989 as my Bn (2/502d, 101st ABN) was slated to train yearlings. He recently earned the Professional in Human Resources Certification through the Human Resources Certification Institute. No, they won't deploy in that position, but they can and do attend annual training and NTC rotations and can act as Platoon Leader. Cadets were not entitled to receive salutes from enlisted personnel. I respect ALL Personnel of the US ARMED FORCES and Civilians appointed over me. He is actually correct, SMP cadets serve in ARNG units in the rank of cadet. Too many Cadets are treated like children by unprofessional NCOs who fail to realize that they are only alienating their future rather and or senior rather. I say this as a retired officer. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? Served in the regulars from 1983 to 1985, and from 1987 to 1989. I never saluted another LT after that as an LT. During my time in the regulars, I encountered a couple of West Point Grads who, in my opinion had amused contempt for enlisted personnel below the rank of E5. She received a Bachelor of Music Education from Indiana University, where she studied both trumpet and voice. Most cadets understand and respect the NCOs within their unit. And get to know your PBO very well! Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). Still though, the cadet might be assigned to the unit based on the Modified Table of Organization and Equipment (MTO) to a non cadet billet. As the DGC, he manages Garrison staff operations in support of the United States Military Academy mission. I was wondering if I would have to make mention of the fact that until they are COMMISSIONED Officers, they will remain nothing more than a glorified E-5 NCO pay scale while in USMA. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. Your submission has been received. Sergeant Major Schlegel earned his Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma (Process Improvement) in 2016, and is actively involved in building the process improvement community at West Point. In other words, each the SNCO and the cadet would be functioning appropriately. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. Of course, there is another reason to treat West Point and ROTC cadets with respect: they are not going to be cadets forever. Other courses attended include the U.S. Army Airborne School, Air Assault School, Combative Level 2, Master Resiliency Trainers Course, Battle Staff Course, First Sergeants Course, and the United States Army Force-Management Course. Master Sergeant Carla Loy Song became a member of the West Point Band in 2007. Everybody read it. The best way to train cadets to be officers that their soldiers will look up to and their NCOs will respect is to treat them the way you want them to act. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? The reason "cadets" are even mention in a gentlemans role is due to long ago medieval social customs. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Rrrrr matey, were be that 3rd Lieutenant. Get off your high horse. The NCO referred me to AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. FOOLISH it is for there to be any antagonism between NCOs and cadets, or NCOs and lieutenants. By reg,they can't command or lead troops in the field. As SNCOs think of this as an opportunity to shape the Os of the future. Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. Secondly, just because of this outdated regulation (considering no cadets are assigned to any deployed units) requires no customs or courtesy obligation from enlisted soldiers or officers. Officers, commissioned warrant officers, midshipmen, cadets, candidates are all affordedofficer status. The garrison supports a base population of over 16,500 Soldiers, Civilians, Family Members, and Contractors as well as supporting over 40,000 retirees in the area. Its like my father (retired CW3) taught me; " I don't have to respect you but I HAVE TO RESPECT your rank.". I am acting PL of my platoon because we dont have a 2LT. It is not necessary to rescind the announcement designating an acting commander to assume duties of the commander during the temporary absence of the regularly assigned commander if the announcement gives the time element involved. It is a chain of command situation. The rank of a cadet is for protocol issues alone such as where to stand in a receiving line or where to sit at a formal dinner. The supervising doctor might ask the medical student to do certain things a doctor would normally do (recommend a prescription, put in sutures, read test or x-ray results), but only with direct physician supervision. So I suppose we dont salute appointed Officers either? (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. come from many NCO's who claim that "NCO's are the backbone of the Army". NEW! The authors creative example about an NCO looking at a lugnut and an officer looking at the whole vehicle is nuts (bad humor). Holds the MOH, four Silver Stars, ten combat ribbons, CIB, is airborne qualified and ex special forces. Without our outstanding NCO Corps counterparts, there would be no outstanding officers. Very interesting. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. Maj. Joel Crawford, USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major by West Point Garrison and Community 2012 - 2014: Col. Dane D. Rideout, USAG West Point Commander by West Point Garrison and Community 1 2012 - 2014 . DeCA, West Point Commissary adjust . Of course there is a certain type of officer who fails to get it. Maj. Michael A. Crosby, left, bears the colors of Army Futures Command, as General Mark Milley, 23rd Secretary of the Army Mark Esper, and General John M. Murray unfurl the colors on 24 August 2018, in Austin, Texas A command sergeant major ( CSM) is a non-commissioned rank and position of office in the United States Army. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. This article reminded me of something that raised a question for me after I received my commission and that had to do with LTs saluting each other. United States Forces Iraq (USF-I), J-7, n Chief, Engineering Plans and Services Yuma, AZ Command Sergeant Major Fraser military and civilian education include: Basic Leader Course, Advanced Leaders Course, Senior Leaders Course, US Army Drill Sergeant Academy, First Sergeant Course, United States Army Sergeants Major Academy, Garrison Pre-Command Course, Battalion Pre-Command Course, Command Sergeant Major Development Program, Master Resilience Training, HR Plans and Operations Course, Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault Course, Battle Staff Course, Postal Supervisor, Postal Operations Course, Modern Army Combative Level I and II, Total Army Instructor Course, Equal Opportunity Leader Course, and Combat Lifesaver Course.
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